GRAMPA.cc

[CableGuy]

WINNER'S TOURNAMENT PROMO

[theoriginalDave]

He sent me another message asking for what games players are looking for, blind structure, or buy-ins people are wishing were out there. Here's your chance to gives someone ideas before things are set in stone.

let's give him some input now instead of bitching later.

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[ungar2000]

wow, this place looks sweet. I'll prolly be playing there a ton.

[mbreon]

Place looks nice. I would like a 2/5 NLHE game with a 200 min 1000 max buy-in....if that's not doable, 200/500 would work.
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[ungar2000]

[BenGPsycho]

[betsig250]

According to his facebook page and website there will be a freeroll there next Saturday at 4. They open next Thursday.

[MightyWhitey]

must......have....omaha.......

Please have Round by round at least... but that's all player specific and bums only wanna play NLHE

Definitely change the buyins for the 2/5.... $400 max doesn't make sense.


Either lower the 1/2 Max buying to 100bb... or make the 2/5 max buyin 150BB ($750) as well.

[Spike]

Actually according to Michigan state law round by round is not legal. You can't have two different games running on the same table with the same chips.

When a single charity is only allow to sell $15,000 in chips in a night you could see where a single 2/5 game could get half of that on the table in the first hour or two.

I don't envy the people who run these charity events... So many factors that are involved and even some you'll never really know about.


This place does look good.

A few keys to make sure your palces takes off.

1. trained dealers - can't say enough about this one. There is nothing more annoying then a dealer is constantly distracted not directing action and not enforcing the rules of poker. The bottom line is the bottom line here also. The more hands people see the better the rake is going to be per hour which is what makes the charities money and keeps them coming back. So a well trained dealer benefits everyone involved.

2. You need a unique stand out reason for people to come in and check it out. Everyone does free rolls. Woody's has their high hand for the night and Westgate runs as decent of a tournament as you are going to get at a charity event. To convince people to show up at your place you need to come up with your own gimmick or do what they do but better.

3. Consider putting in a bar and as good of a food menu as you can. I'm not sure how big this place is and by the two picture it doesn't look like you have a bar yet(I realize this means liquor license). If people have leave to get drinks and food you loose out on money and since that specific section of land you are on doesn't have any close restaurants when people leave they may not come back. When I say close I mean walk 50 feet next door get food and come back because I'm well aware you are just off of 28th street.

Just a little advice that might help.
_________________
A true test of a poker player isn't what hand he will make a call with but what hand he will fold when he knows he is beat.

[MightyWhitey]

[Mike Van Til]

Thank you for the input. I see what your saying about the 2/5 game. I will change it to $20 min $200 max for 1/2. The 2/5 I will change it to $200 min and $400 max. The comment about the food and drinks, we have soda, water,Gatorade, and Red Bull right now. The food we have chips, pretzels, candy bars, and peanuts. There is a pizza place next door that sells whole pizza, pizza by the slice, subs, and pastas.

Games. We are checking with the state to see what is allowed.

Does everyone like the high hand? I get mixed reviews.

Thank you

Mike

[MightyWhitey]

I'll definitely be checking out your room Mike... thanks for listening to our input.

High hand jackpot isn't something you are going to get players to agree on.

On one hand, people play looser trying to win it... but based on Woody's $600 hi-hand jackpot you have to win high hand once out of every 600 raked pots you enter to break-even. I doubt this is long term profitable...

[mbreon]

I personally do not care for high hand jackpots as that is extra money taken out of the rake for players. Just my personal preference. If that is a hook that gets more players in the door, then go for it.

I highly recommend increasing your max buy-in for the 2/5 game to at least $500.

A round-by-round game, or strictly Omaha game, I'm sure would be of interest to many people. No other room I know if in town has a PLO game running on a regular basis.

Good luck with the room.
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"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[resonator]

[betsig250]

1 thing I really like about Holland is that Tom lets you bring your own adult beverages and allows you to keep it in the fridge.

[cuban1]

I would not mind high hand and I will be going to this place for a try as well. Hope it all works out
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[RogerS]

I agree that this room needs something to make it stand out. Most of the players in the area have their favorite room already so you are trying to convince them to change something they are already comfortable with.
The problem with the high hand is having to stay to the end of the night. I don't like the idea myself. It is almost like being held hostage if you have a hand that may qualify.

[theoriginalDave]

I'm voting for great looking dealers (Women) in french maid outfits and a rule that they buy shots for a misdeal

Seriously, I'm with great dealers that know the rules and enforce them. I like them a little chatty but not to familiar. I've been to places where the dealers act like such good friends with the regulars that it gets a little scary.

Clean and stocked bathrooms! I'm no germophobe but get a little leary of passing cards around a table with 11 people who's hands I don't know where they've been and no paper towels in the bathroom. (are you listening exCascade?)

I don't need the big games or the high hands, but prefer a blind structure that allows time for some play.

One other thing that just crossed my mind is that I know of no place in town that has day hours. How many third shift workers miss out on the games because they work nights like me? how about one day a week with a morning game?

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[BenGPsycho]

[resonator]

[BenGPsycho]

[Mike Van Til]

What is the biggest buy-in Tournament that you would like to see?
$150.00,$200.00? Is there enough interest in a $200.00 buy-in with 25 minute blinds? It would probably last 7 hours with the blind structure. Maybe it would be once a month.

[mbreon]

When the Deltaplex was operating, they ran a monthly $200 that generated a decent number of players each month. Can't remember their blind structure but I would think an emulation of that would have a likelihood of being successful.
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[Spike]

No Greg I've not run an establishment and as things go I've got a fair amount of experience running poker events. I've assisted Tim for many years and I've even run league nights and tournaments when he could not make it.

As for the round by round game. Don't you think its curious that you can't find a round by round game any more? Its because its not offered because the State auditors said it was illegal. This came from not one but two people who I know that do run two separate establishments.
_________________
A true test of a poker player isn't what hand he will make a call with but what hand he will fold when he knows he is beat.

[MightyWhitey]

If you ran a monthly saturday/sunday $200 that would be sweet.

I would definitely be up for that.[/quote]

[CableGuy]

Round by round: Billy went to a conference held by the state two weeks ago where they confirmed that round by round is not withing the bounds of the millionaire party licence. They said thast you could dedicate 2 tables and literaly ge up and move to the other table every round but having two games on the same table was impossible.

High Hand: by law of averages if everyone is winning and losing the same amount you pay 1/9th of a dollar per hand for the high hand which mean you have to win it 1 time for every ~5400 hands. At 15 hands an hour (my average at woody's) thas once every 360 hours. I got mine already so I'm ahead of the curve.

The way to be smart about this is to only play there when the HH is beatable (Quad Ts or lower) Once the HH is Quad As or better you should leave and not contribute to the HH pot that your not likely to win.


Sugestions to Rivertown:
(((build a player base))) Untill you have 1 table going as soon as you open and 2 tables within the first hour your hands are goin to be tied trying to keep the charities happy. After you have a base you can start promotions.
((( make sure you have good charities booked ))) the rooms that haven't done well in GR (Break room, deuce, lincoln) hasve been plagued by not being rliable because they lose thier licences. The first time a player comes to your place when your suposed to be open and has to go somewhere else is probably the last time they'll try.
((( dealers ))) good dealers make the game. Get some. MPL only lets you pay the $50 a day from the charity. You can have $5 dealers work a 10hr shift or $10 dealers work a 5 hour shift. You need a big stable to do the ladder but that is what i would do. I still wonder if YOU not the charity can pay a dealer also, so let the charityt pay the $50 and you pay them $50 so you can get more out of each dealer.
((( rake ))) Thiks is just a sugestion for you, drop the rake for the first hour of your games. The smart players will be there for it and incentivate getting the tables open. If a table deals 15 hands an hour and $6 a hand gets raked that's $90 an hour. If you can pull two two tables with this promotion you'll lose (not really losing it's on the table still) ~$120 but make it back plus some in the following hours.

there's my 2 cents.

[BenGPsycho]

[CableGuy]

sweet in that case pay the dealers .50 a hand they deal and dock em a buck for errors. Good dealers can make bank and bad dealers aren't rewarded by the players that came for the good dealers.

[BenGPsycho]

[Mike Van Til]

Does everyone like tournaments? Or is the cash games what you want the most?

[CableGuy]

I am fundamentally opposed to tipping dealers. Too many times i see dealers getting crapped on by idiot players for being bad luck. If you tip a dealer for dealing you good cards you feed into this idea. If it's a dealer's fault for good cards it's also his fault for bad cards. I would be more inclined to tip on hands per hour scale (something they control) but if you could pay dealers for being better dealers this would not be an issue. As of now tips are the only thing keeping good dealers dealing but if you could pay them more then tips should be done away with. Any dealer wanting a pay scale and tips is greedy and should be dragged into the street and shot.

[BenGPsycho]

[Diewalker]

Dave and all the others. I second the idea of a morning game for us "alternate shift" workers. That has been one of my beefs too. I get out of work at 11:45 and by the time I get almost anywhere, they are either closed or closing within minutes. A day game would be the berries. Later, Luke.
_________________
Hoping for a good flop. Diewalker

[BenGPsycho]

[mbreon]

Add one $200+ buy-in per month tournament event to that list.
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[theoriginalDave]

There has been no discussion on tournament payouts, I'm surprised.

Thanks for labeling me Ben, I like both games

Mike, I hadn't given much thought to the morning game idea, just kid of threw it out there. I tried finding a morning home game awhile ago with no luck. I have to believe there are some around but none that i found.

I think it would have to be something to develop after you have been open a while and then see if there is any interest. I think it would be best to set it up as a league to keep people coming and then sell it to the charities once you have interest built. Seems like there must be people at the charities that work nights too, that wouldn't mind running it in the AM, and I'm sure Ben is willing to stay up all night to deal nights and mornings

Good luck

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[mbreon]

Good call on tourney payouts. Doubt you will ever find full consensus on them. I prefer to pay less players and have a very top-heavy payout, while others prefer to have a flatter payout scale that pays out more players.
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[RogerS]

[friarchucko]

I think the $200 game should be top heavy , but the other's should be flat.

This would let more Donks ( rebuy more for a chance at a ) caxh.

Could mean a higher pay out in those smaller games
_________________
Who says playing cards is bad for you -
just look at this body !!

[newpokerguy]

Are you guys not aware of the fact that Woody's is starting Mon-Thurs at 9a this week Monday??

[CableGuy]

I am aware, i should have said something earlier. Monday is normally my day off so i was going to be there all day but I put into training this week so i'll have to wait till 4

[Mike Van Til]

The last Sunday of the month, thinking about holding a $150.00 buy in Tournament. Pay out would be 85%. If I get enough positive feedback for it this weekend, I will start it next week, April 26.

[mbreon]

[RogerS]

[waterboy]

Not going to Turtle Creek. Kids have a karate tourney that day. So depending on start time of the $150 tourney at Rivertown, I will probably be there. Any time after 2pm would be a good start time. Since I can't go north to play, I will stay home to play. If all you guys go up there, what other competition will there be? Right? LOL

So good luck at Turtle to all who make the journey, may the final table be full of GRAMPA players.
_________________
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, keep me here.

[Mike Van Til]

For tournaments, would you like to see less players paid out and bigger first prize, or spread it out with more winners?

6-15 players 2 paid
16-30 players 3 paid
31-45 players 4 paid
46-60 players 5 paid

5-15 Players 2 Places Paid
16-30 Players 3 Places Paid
31-40 Players 4 Places Paid
41-50 Players 5 Places Paid
51-60 Players 6 Places Paid

[CableGuy]

I personally would stick to a stars/top 10% payout.

>10... 70%/30%
10-25 50%/30%/20%
25-39 45%/25%/15%/10%
40-49 35%/25%/20%/12%/8%
50-60 35%/25%/16%/11%/8%/5%

[mbreon]

I prefer a top heavy payout as opposed to a flatter payout. Most other places do 10% which is the live standard. I just like first place to be as much as possible in case I ever donk my way that far
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[Mike Van Til]

$600.00 Free Roll Saturday April 18 at 4pm
Registration starts at 3pm
We open the doors at 2pm

Cash players sign up for Tournament early.

[waterboy]

Hey Mike,

Great room. I enjoyed playing there will play more. Comfortable seats, nice tables, well trained dealers and close to my home. Good job building this poker room.
_________________
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, keep me here.

[cuban1]

Very Sweet room! I will be back again!
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[Mike Van Til]

15 minute blinds

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
Break
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
Break
700/1400
900/1800
1100/2200
1300/2600
Break
1500/3000
2000/4000
2500/5000
3000/6000
Break
4000/8000
5000/10000
6000/12000
7000/14000
Break
8000/16000
10000/20000
12000/24000
15000/30000
Break

[Mike Van Til]

Tournaments:

Thursdays $20 Re-buy @ 6pm. 15 Minute Blinds. 80% Payback.
$4, 000 Starting Chips.
Unlimited Re-buys within the first six rounds. $10 for $2, 000 in chips if you have less than $2000 in front of you or $20 for $4,000 if you are out of chips.

Friday $30.00 Freezeout @ 6pm. 20 Minute Blinds. 85% Payback. $5000.00 Starting Chips.

Saturdays $40.00 + $5.00 Knock Out @ 6pm. 20 Minute Blinds. 85% Payback. $7000.00 Starting chips.

Sunday $20.00 Freezeout @ 6pm 15 Minute Blinds. 80% Payback. $3000.00 starting Chips.

Starting April 23, the tournament player who cashes in the most $$$ for the week, will win a seat into the
$500.00 WINNERS TOURNAMENT

The $500 WINNERS TOURNAMENT will happen every 10 weeks.

You win the most $$$ in a week, and your in the tournament!!!!

WINNERS TOURNAMENT pays

1st Place $250.00
2nd Place $150.00
3rd Place $100.00

WEEKLY WINNERS
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Mike Van Til]

Watch the draft on our 42" HD T.V.s and play a little hold'em.

[Mike Van Til]

How did everyone do this weekend?

[theoriginalDave]

Mike you are still Thrus thru Sunday right? I'm off the next two nights. Looking for games.

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[Mike Van Til]

That's right. Thur-Sun only right now.

[friarchucko]

Dave , if you find some thing , post it . I got nothing to do untill Tim's Sunday.
_________________
Who says playing cards is bad for you -
just look at this body !!

[Mike Van Til]

How do I get River Town Poker on the quick links on the home page?

[CableGuy]

You'd have to be me. I can do it for you though.

[Mike Van Til]

Starting Saturday May 2, it will be a Max $4.00 rake all day. We also have a daily High Hand for Cash Players.

[CableGuy]

So is it 4+1 for the HH?

[CableGuy]

Do you have a website mike?

[Mike Van Til]

It is $4.00 + $1.00 for the high hand.
Website is www.rivertownpoker.com

[BenGPsycho]

Thanks to your least favorite asian, the blind structure has been edited to allow for some more play. I told him to use this for both his 15 min. blinds, along with his 20 min. blind structures.

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200

150/300
200/400
250/500
300/600

400/800
500/1000
600/1200
700/1400

800/1600
1000/2000
1200/2400
1500/3000

2000/4000
2500/5000
3000/6000
4000/8000

5000/10000
6000/12000
7000/14000
8000/16000

10000/20000
12000/24000
15000/30000
Break

[Mike Van Til]

What do I have to do to get the word out about my room? One of my dealers offered to put fliers under the wind shield wipers of cars at Woody's and Westgate. I think Ill make a couple of enemies if I do that. Any suggestions?

[mbreon]

Please don't do the fliers thing. Word of mouth is always the best advertising. If people go there and have good experiences, the word will spread. It usually takes a little time to develop a good customer base.

I will tell you that if you work to spread a 1/3 or 2/5 PLO game on a regular basis, you will have players that will come to play that. Many players around town have noted that there are no regular PLO games in town. You can become "the" place in town for PLO action or whatever...
_________________
"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please."

[theoriginalDave]

Ya, think that is a bad idea, I heard form one room manager that wasn't happy about you contacting their charities. not good to make enemies.

It takes money to make money, advertise. Maybe get a radio talent to come play at a tournament with a bounty on him. (just don't get Huge or Mathews, can't stand them.) lol I think Tony Gates plays and has a huge following in town.

Or how about getting a hold of the two local major poker tournament players and have a game with them with bounties?

http://blog.mlive.com/deadmoney/2009/05/hopkins_man_wins_heartland_pok.html#more

http://www.worldpokertour.com/Shared/Players/Bios/R/Robert_Richardson.aspx

This kind of event may get you some free publicity if you let the local media in on it.

Other wise just get your dealers out playing at other charities and talking (but not hard core pushing) about your place. Not telling that they are dealers.

Call Suzy Geha and tell her you have an announcement about "The Next Big Thing To Hit Grand Rapids." but you aren't going to tell for a week. That seems to work well lately.

Just keep running a good game. It is a tough time of year to get a room started. peopel have better things to do than hangout at the card room on weekends. Only us hard core addicted sickos will show.

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[Mike Van Til]

I cold called all the charities. Looked up on line non-profit groups and started calling. I'm sure they will be calling mine as well.

[theoriginalDave]

Thanks Mike, I told them that is what you were probably doing but you know how people can be about their clients.
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[BabyDutch]

My suggestions:

- Find your niche: Folks will come for certain games. I love the PLO idea. A creative tournament (super bounty, deep structure) will draw. Also identify where you think your players will mostly come from and do some advertising there. Maybe hit the Rivertown mall, promote in the paper, radio, ect. Poker players will talk to each other, but as stated, it can take a bit to get the wheels turning.

- Come up with a summertime event. With the GSOP apparently in question, might not be a bad idea to put together a couple of weeks worth of events sometime in July or August. Major events on Saturdays, qualifiers during the week. Medium Stakes NLHE, a 6-handed event, Heads Up, PLO, 8-game, and a Big Buy-in NLHE. Have nice trophies or whatever for the winners.

- Celebrity Bounty tournament. Get a couple of charities together that actually have some pull and get some folks in with special bounties on them. Radio personalities are perfect because they can give you some free burn by talking about it on their programs in addition to any advertising you buy. A guy like Tony Gates is fantastic because he plays, and is actually a nice guy who people like. I know at Citadel Todd Chance from 105.3 also plays reguarly, and he's a friendly dude as well. Huge or Kevin Matthews might also do it, but both those guys are a-holes who would also ask for a high price. Huge's audience is exactly your clientel, though, so take that into consideration. Other than that, a TV personality or maybe a Griffin or Whitecaps player could do too. Heck, reach out to Tom McEvoy. Maybe he's back home to visit sometime this summer.

You need a "wow" factor to pull in new players. For me, I would drive out to Rivertown if I knew players were there consistantly and the games were good, but right now people are kinda stuck in their Westgate or Woody's ruts.
_________________
"Nevermind...we just view things differently."

[cuban1]

Try posting on Craigs list! lol
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[Mike Van Til]

Where is everybody?? 5 people playing cash right now 6:30pm

[theoriginalDave]

I should have stayed Mike, I played two hands at the other place! Out the door in 20 min.

I'll stop by again, it a great looking place, I hope you can get things going there. It's nice to see someone do it right.

Dave
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[cuban1]

I would play today....but your not open~
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[BenGPsycho]

[friarchucko]

Was there Sun. while there about 4 other cars showed up with the wives.

It was there MOTHER'S DAY treat, to have hubby pay for there game.

Do you have a $20 SNG on Sundays?

2 headed to Woody's , others said Westgate.

just thought you would like to know.
_________________
Who says playing cards is bad for you -
just look at this body !!

[Mike Van Til]

I had the sign up for 2 weeks saying we would be closed on Mothers Day.

[friarchucko]

that would mean they all would have been new players ?

[Mike Van Til]

I guess so. We are open this weekend and then we have an open weekend we couldn't fill. After that, we should be open except for the major holidays.

[whupp]

Any games going on here tonight?

[cuban1]

there was!
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[whupp]

I was there!

[theoriginalDave]

Looks like they are closed this weekend

http://www.rivertownpoker.com/
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[cuban1]

but next friday they are having a free roll!!!
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[theoriginalDave]

sweeeet!!!
_________________
I'm a super donky that still plays better poker than Tim

[Mike Van Til]

Free Roll this Friday at 7pm. Registration begins at 6pm.

[Mike Van Til]

Tounament Schedule

Thursday $40.00 FREEZE OUT at 7pm. 15 minute blinds.
$3000 starting chips.

Friday $20 Re-Buy with Add-Ons at 7pm. 15 minute
Blinds. $2000 starting chips. Unlimited
Rebuys and add-ons the first 8 rounds. $10
for $1000 chips if you have less than $1000 in
front of you or $20 for $2000 if you are out of chips.

Saturday $50 + $10 Knock Out at 7pm. 20 minute blinds.
$4000 starting chips. Receive $10 for every
player that you knock out of the tournament.

Sunday $100 Freeze Out at 4pm. 20 minute blinds.
$8000 starting chips.

[RogerS]

What kind of a turn out are you getting for these games? I would like to try this room but it is a bit of a drive to show up for a game of only a couple of others.

[Mike Van Til]

This will be the first week with the new tournaments.

[Mike Van Til]

Free rolls are not the solution for getting people in. I see people come in for the tournament, and won't see 95% of them again. Any Ideas??

[Spike]

I don't know what the state rules are because I know they are tightening the screws on charity poker events but you have to be creative to get people in the door. If you have ideas it won't hurt to give them a try.
_________________
A true test of a poker player isn't what hand he will make a call with but what hand he will fold when he knows he is beat.

[newpokerguy]

If you ask me there are simply too many rooms right now with not enough players to support the new rooms. Most players already have a location (either Woody's or Westgate) which they KNOW will be open & have a game going 7 days a week whenever they show up. Who wants to drive out to a new location only to find out that there are 3 people sitting at one table with no action at 9p at night?

Free rolls will get out people with no cash in their pocket to play the 1/2 game which is really where the charity is going to make their money from. You need to do something different like stay open until 4a or 5a. There are plenty of full tables in the city right now that close down at 2a - if there was a game going until 4a you would get more players who don't mind staying up late to play to come to your location. If casinos can pull in a crowd at that hour of the night for poker and day poker has already been shown to have a market in this area (BTW - looks like Westgate will be going to days as well here later in the summer during the week) then why wouldn't a late night game be worth a try? One that stays open until 4 or 5a?

[Mike Van Til]

The state allows 8am until 2am for hours of operation.

[Mike Van Til]

Game 7 tonight!! We will have it on if you want to come down.

[Mike Van Til]

Last night, one of my dealers went to Westgate and put flyers on wind shields of cars. I told them to spread them around, but did not say where. That was my fault. I talked to the people at Westgate and explaind to them the situation. I apologize for what happened and it will not happen again.

[Mike Van Til]

$100 Freeze Out at 7pm Sunday. Free pizza for the players. Let me know if you are planning to attend. 534-8504 you can leave a message on the machine.
Thanks
Mike

[Mike Van Til]

This Friday at 7pm, we will have a $20 buy in with $10 unlimited add on Tournament. In addition to winning first place cash. The winner will also receive a 22" LCD HD TV!!! We need at least 30 people to play in the tournament for us to give away the TV. So invite some friends. We will start doing this every week if we get enough people to come in and play in it. That means coming in the other days too. Other prizes we are considering; I-Touch MP3 Player, X Box 360, Playstation 3, TVs, Gift Cards, Hotel rooms at Casinos, Etc...

[cuban1]

Sweet! I like them incentives!
_________________
Winning is so Sweet!

[SteadyCash]